NME 20th April 1996 Issue



JOHN SQUIRE
I WISH WE'D MADE MORE RECORDS

'PEOPLE CHANGE, RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE, HAIRSTYLES CHANGE… THAT'S LIFE, ISN'T IT?'




His eyes dilate. They spread Ecstasy-wide and flit left to right, absorbing every image and episode in the chintzy hotel bar. All the while he sits motionless in a blue upholstered armchair, a picture of sartorial elegance and, perhaps, the finest rock guitarist of his generation.

The question he has been asked is the hardest one to answer: why? Why leave one of the most important British rock bands of the past two decades? Why walk out on a band who had such a profound effect on post-punk culture that they changed the way people dressed, played, walked, talked – even thought? Why? Why leave the Stone Roses?

The eyes flicker. John Squire turns over a history of arguments, bitter threats, momentous triumphs and relationships-turned-rancid in his mind. He skips past the nitty-gritty detail, then speaks slowly and deliberately.

"I'd started coming round to the idea that I didn't want to go in for the next album and I thought it was fair that I let them know. I was starting to hear noises on the grapevine that they wanted to go in and start recording. I knew Mani was on holiday so I just waited for him to get back before 'phoning round. I 'phoned him on the Thursday but I couldn't get Ian, so I 'phoned him on the Friday. They didn't really accept it initially and they thought they could talk me round. I was quite surprised actually because I thought it was fairly obvious, the way the tour had gone, that it wasn't fulfilling. Onstage was fine but…" The eyes race, the arms unfold and he pauses for breath. The pitch of his voice raises, approaching incredulity. "Solo all week… I thought there's got to be a bit more than this."

John Squire has emerged from the debacle of The Stone Roses with his dignity intact. And he's the only one. Squire had the self-confidence and belief to leave a band in decline, still sufficiently motivated to risk starting over instead of clinging to the remains of a once-great band.

Honourable and smart enough to leave during a period of inactivity, he did everything by the book. He was smart.

While The Stone Roses were wrong-footed by his departure and expressed only bitterness and resentment, Squire declared himself positive about his future and showed magnanimity to his former band members and one-time friends. And while The Stone Roses now comprise a fatally flawed singer, a session drummer, the former keyboard player with a best-forgotten '80s band (OMD), and Mani, Squire has untold opportunities. He is writing at a prolific rate, has a clutch of new songs and hopes to tour with a new band by August.

In truth, of course, his departure came as no surprise. The rot had set in long ago. The creative crisis that had evidently arisen during their five-year hiatus was revealed with the release of 'Love Spreads', which stalled one place short of the hallowed Number One slot. 'Love Spreads' marked a less than triumphant return, but more importantly the 'Second Coming' LP largely failed to deliver the stellar music that both fans and critics demanded. What should have been the Roses' finest hour was, in reality, the pivotal point in their demise. The record was awaited with a religious fervour and though it is assured, impressive and in places stunning (re-play the Zeppelin-esque 'Tears'), after five years and the unnecessary hubris surrounding its release, 'Second Coming' was inevitably an anti-climax.

The myth and mystique so integral to The Stone Roses dissipated. Suddenly, like any other band, they showed themselves to be fallible. At times, band members appeared shrouded in gloomy resignation. Reni quit on the eve of a tour, illnesses were greeted with cynicism by fans and media alike, concerts were cancelled, Glastonbury passed them by and it took a year for them to tour in the UK. But though many gigs were impressive, the Roses' legend had been tarnished.

"I think if it (the myth) was going to go it went with the album not being the greatest thing since JC," says Squire now.

And so, after touring the album he rightly loves, he left.

The first thing you notice about John Squire is his smile. It has replaced the surly scowl that became prominent during 'Second Coming'. The second is his appearance. He is dressed smartly in a crisp blue and white checked shirt and a neat haircut. He is a man who is at turns personable, warm, dry, witty and reserved, practically radiating confidence.

"It wasn't clear what route I should take until that week. There was no straw to break the back. And I know now that it was the right thing to do, I was dubious at the time. I feel like… you know those body casts, those full-body casts that people sometimes have to wear if they break their back? I feel like I've had one of them removed, and I know I've got a lot more to give and I feel like I'm free to do it.

"I think getting a new drummer (Robbie Maddix) showed me that I was more independent than I thought, but it was quite shocking to play with someone else after all that time as a closed unit, it was a bit of a revelation actually."

What do you mean, 'More independent'?

"Musically. It became more apparent that I existed as a separate entity and that you can play with different people; have The Experience in a different way. I suppose it helped me decide that I might as well be in a completely different group."

Did The Stone Roses hold you back?

"No. It seemed to be… I suppose a bit of the spark had gone but I couldn't really put my finger on where it went and who was to blame. And I suppose even if I knew, I'm not interested in recriminations and apportioning blame. I'd rather look forward. I don't feel that I was the gifted one dragging the rest of the band behind. But I do feel that I need the room to release what's in me. I don't want to fight it out and compromise. I know the way it should be and that's the music I'm going to make."

How did you feel during the recording of 'Second Coming'?

"I can't really say that the band was splitting up when we were recording. It wasn't too factional then. I just felt a bit limp, really."

But are you proud of that album?

"The songs and some of the playing, yeah. But I'd say that, I don't know who wrote that it was a 'flawed masterpiece', but I think that's a worthy epitaph for the album."

Did you playing improve during that time?

"It improved a lot. I wish we'd made more records. It was radically different from day one to the finish. It's an expensive way to practise though."

The statement issued when you left described a "gradual social and musical seperation" between you and the rest of the band.

"That's been going on for years, it's not just because of the tour. We all live in different parts of the country, we don't go out. It does make a big difference when you're not free to visit round the corner. There was a time when we all lived in one small town and it was literally walking distance to everyone's house."

Do you miss that?

"I don't know. It's easy to look back with rose-tinted shades. No, I don't. It was a shit hole. It's not what it used to be. No, I wouldn't go back there."

And the musical seperation?

"It's just the stuff they were listening to, really. There was initially a kind of common ground in The Beatles and the Stones and all that classic '60s stuff, then Ian got more and more heavily into rap to the exclusion of everything else and I got more into guitar music in any form that it came, no matter what the trousers and haircuts were like. I suppose Reni used to have a foot in both camps, he wasn't an elitist in any way with regards to what he would listen to."

What happened when Reni left?

"Well, running up to it left us looking like pricks with interviews and photo sessions and a video shoot. It just became apparent that he wanted out but he didn't know how to do it. We had ten days, I think it was ten or 12 days to go to the tour. We'd already had to blow out the secret tour because we simply weren't ready to play it. The rehearsals hadn't been going very well. Nobody was really in shape to do it. So I just remember it being a really mad rush to cram everything in. Any time in our history it would have been a major blow to lose a member, ten days before a gig never mind a tour, because we're all the sort of people who've played in bands since we were 11 and doing pub gigs every night. It was kind of a one-off."

Was Reni an important creative foil?

"Yeah, we did have something going. We used to trip each other up a lot. We knew what we meant. A lot of the time we'd fight for the same space. I'd be trying to put some lead into a space and he'd be tapping out on his bass drum or something."

Would you have liked 'Second Coming' to have been released before December 1994?

"We all took too long over it. No-one is to blame, specifically. We were just a dysfunctional unit while we were making that record."

The record was met with some criticism. Did you accept them or consider them misplaced?

"No, I accept them. Well, not all of them. I probably haven't read them all. I do prefer it to the first one. I know that there is no way that I can listen to it in the same way as someone who didn't make it, who didn't write it. I'm not ashamed of it. The cover is a bit dark, but the next one will be better."

The cover or the album?

"Both."

Do you think mistakes were made during 'Second Coming'.

"We dropped a lot of clangers but I think most people would if they were managerless. It was a four-headed monster. I can look back on it and see where the mistakes were made but at the time is was just shit happening. I assumed that people would understand that we are mere mortals and we do get ill and have accidents and miss appointments. But it's not really allowed, is it? I did have pneumonia, by the way. It came in inverted commas in the NME. It hurt and scared the shit out of me and I do slightly resent the fact that it's been looked upon as a lie."

The media was very cynical throughout the 'Second Coming' campaign. Did that affect you?

"No, because I knew who I was before and I know who I am now. I think if I'd run away with the idea that I was somehow superior then any sort of rejection would have been hard to take."

And do you think that is what happened with other members of The Stone Roses?

"No. I don't know much about them, to be honest with you, which is a shame, but it's true. That's life I suppose, isn't it? People change, relationships change, hairstyles change. Can I ask you a question? Were you really surprised?"

No.

"Relieved?"

Yes. I thought it was a good thing. I was glad.

When people were trying to persuade you against leaving, did you ever waver?

"No, not really. I was very surprised when I told Ian and I'd expected him to go in a rage about it. Paradoxically it was like the first time I'd spoken to him for a good few years. I don't really know who he is now. But there was a chink of light at that point when I said, 'I've had enough and I'm getting out.'"

Had you wanted to save the whole thing?

"Yeah. It's been going on for a while. People have threatened to quit and said they're not happy. There was a lot of talk and a lot of posturing but nothing was ever done. I've always dreaded the prospect of any one of us going. I don't think it was a case of 'You wrote X amount of songs or you have your picture taken more than me therefore you are more indispensable than I am'. It was just the four of us and anything less just wouldn't do. But I did want to tour that album. I wanted to play."

Have you started writing new songs?

"I never stop. It's just finishing them, that's the trick. I'm not struggling at the moment, I'm frighteningly prolific."

Will you be fronting your new band?

"No, I'll be playing guitar. I don't really have a precedent for it. I suppose rules are there to be broken."

Surely that's the whole point.

"I've always thought it was the songs that counted, really. So I put my faith in them. The rest will fall into place."

Are you scared?

"No."

Have you ever been scared?

"What, ever in my life?"

No, since your realisation that you could no longer be a part of The Stone Roses.

"No. I haven't had that since… I used to… Before we got anywhere with the band, after I'd left work, I suppose between '85 and '89, I used to wake up and it always got me at this point and I'd wake up on the sofa about 3am and I'd fallen asleep watching telly and I don't know why but at that point it would rush in and little gremlins would be saying 'You're wasting your time, you're never going to get anywhere.' So not since then."

Have you demoed new songs?

"I always record things. On a Portastudio."

And is there an intention or ambition or thing that drives you in terms of your new band? Is there something that you want, that you are aware of?

"There is something that I want but I don't know what it is. There is definitely something that drives me. I know that the conclusion to any sort of venture and procedure is as important as the way you've arrived at it. So, I don't know. Maybe I'd be better off just watching telly and eating chocolates all day. I don't know what it is that drives me. I don't know why I feel I've got something to prove."

Do you ever consider the source of that motivation, or is it too precious?

"I don't know what the source is. I can look back to the little trickle. I don't know about the source. I've always enjoyed making things. I've always wanted them to be the best, or as good as I could possibly do."

The trickle then. When did that start?

"The earliest picture I can remember doing was of… Have you seen Spartacus? I think there's a battle scene in it. There's some group of Turkish geezers with conical helmets on one side and Spartans on the other. It's a really famous scene where they roll these tubes of straw on fire down a hill. I can remember drawing that. I was round at my grandad's in Moston. And he was watching the Cup Final, I think it was Leeds and Chelsea. Do you remember that great Leeds side of the early '70s?"

I'm not a football fan, but yes.

"So when I was eight or something, I remember spending ages drawing them all, all the little soldiers and the arrows going over. I don't know what you're after, do you want to know about little cups or trophies and things?"

No. I'm interested in what motivates you.

"I don't know if I can find it. And if I did it would probably run away."

Do you spend much time painting?

"No, just music at the moment. I keep making notes of things that I should do. Things to make."

Do you enjoy deadlines?

"Yeah, I always write lists. I live by lists and if it's on the list it's got to be done. And I feel a bit restless until it's crossed off. There's nowt wrong with a good deadline."

Did the rise of Oasis have any affect on you or the members of The Stone Roses?

"Not as far as I know. I don't feel any sort of jealousy. I like a lot of the songs. I've met all the band, I've not really spoken at length with anyone but Liam and Noel. I think they're both nice lads, I wish them all the best. I don't resent anyone else. I don't feel like they've stolen anything from me, do you know what I mean?

"They're an inspiration. I do admire them. I've listened to a few records with Liam and I know that he's in it for the right reasons. That's, in a way, the closest I get to a lot of people, sitting down late at night with a tune on and connecting to them. I know why he's doing it and it isn't to be in News Of The World."

I wanted to ask you about the statement from The Stone Roses.

"I haven't read it yet, what is it?"

A copy of the statement is passed to John Squire. He looks it over.

"I wasn't aware they were in the middle of recording the LP. I thought it was an honourable time to go really, it could have been in the middle of an album, a real album, or a tour. I don't really understand it to be honest with you. Reni seemed to get a pat on the back when he went."

And have you been aware of the reaction to your leaving?

"I'm not really aware of that."

It has been one of shock and general disappointment.

"It wasn't an easy decision to make but I do feel it was the right one and I think the future will bear that out. I don't really have a handle on what the public – for want of a better word – thinks. You have to take for granted that we couldn't carry on forever and we couldn't all leave on the same day. So what else is there to do? Someone's got to go. Nothing lasts forever, does it? Apart from The Sphinx."

The sun?

"No, nothing does. I was right the first time."
















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