Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Stone Roses Discussion
Scott 4
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by Scott 4 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:53 pm

If a band matters that much. Like really matters, then there's going to be disappointment and a sense of what might have been.
I was gutted when the excrement that is 'Cut The Crap' came out under the Clash name. OK, Mick and Topper weren't on it. But Strummer, Simonon and Bernie Rhodes really tarnished the Clash name and legacy with that shite. As far as I'm concerned The Clash ended with 'Combat Rock' and when Topper (then Mick) was sacked...

Same goes for 'Free As A Bird'. Getting Jeff Lynne to buff up a dodgy quality Lennon demo and pass it off as a Beatles single?!
I wonder how many people wanted so much to hear it, but when they did thought, 'This is bollocks!'?
It wasn't even worthy to be Beatles B-Side, never mind a comeback A-Side...

'All For One' was as crushing in its own way. 'Beautiful Thing' was better, but nowhere near what we all know they can do.
Like The Beatles and The Clash before them, the Roses were the band of their era. They certainly were for me anyway.
They had the look, the mystique, the charisma, and - above all - they had the talent. They really were that important in 89/90.
So something like 'All For One' is going to be seen as tarnishing their legacy. How can it not? :(

Regan 2.0
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by Regan 2.0 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:09 pm

Scott 4 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:53 pm
If a band matters that much. Like really matters, then there's going to be disappointment and a sense of what might have been.
I was gutted when the excrement that is 'Cut The Crap' came out under the Clash name. OK, Mick and Topper weren't on it. But Strummer, Simonon and Bernie Rhodes really tarnished the Clash name and legacy with that shite. As far as I'm concerned The Clash ended with 'Combat Rock' and when Topper (then Mick) was sacked...

Same goes for 'Free As A Bird'. Getting Jeff Lynne to buff up a dodgy quality Lennon demo and pass it off as a Beatles single?!
I wonder how many people wanted so much to hear it, but when they did thought, 'This is bollocks!'?
It wasn't even worthy to be Beatles B-Side, never mind a comeback A-Side...

'All For One' was as crushing in its own way. 'Beautiful Thing' was better, but nowhere near what we all know they can do.
Like The Beatles and The Clash before them, the Roses were the band of their era. They certainly were for me anyway.
They had the look, the mystique, the charisma, and - above all - they had the talent. They really were that important in 89/90.
So something like 'All For One' is going to be seen as tarnishing their legacy. How can it not? :(
I didn't mind Free as a bird when it was released. I was a massive Beatles nut at the time and didn't feel let down by it. I still quite like it when I hear it unexpectedly. I think Real Love was terrible though. I can still hear the sound of the barrel scraping on that one.

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Northern Guy
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by Northern Guy » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:06 pm

rangers wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:44 pm
They showed they could play and fill the stadiums like your u2 or muse with no backing tapes.
No backing tapes, but lots of auto-tune or something on Brown's vocal at select gigs and most obviously in the Made of Stone movie. (U2, incidentally, filled stadiums the world over for many years without backing tapes -- well, except for a sequencer on one song... or corporate sponsorship.)

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Northern Guy
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by Northern Guy » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:10 pm

Scott 4 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:53 pm
Same goes for 'Free As A Bird'. Getting Jeff Lynne to buff up a dodgy quality Lennon demo and pass it off as a Beatles single?!
The most bizarre thing about 'Free as a Bird' is that none of the surviving Beatles was aware that the song had already been commercially issued -- in 1988 -- on the Imagine: John Lennon soundtrack. They learned this after they themselves recorded and released it (I personally prefer that rough demo in the movie.) And yes, The 'Threetles' version was garbage. As was 'Real Love', though it was probably a better composition. (There was a third track they were supposed to do, but fortunately George Harrison had the good sense to call time on it.)

Speaking of which, just like some of The Roses, George and Ringo needed money in the early 1990s. It seems strange to say, but apparently true. Just before Anthology, Ringo was in a Pizza Hut commercial with The Monkees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGcRYE9NbD0

(Maybe I shouldn't give Ian Brown ideas...)

eviltimeban
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by eviltimeban » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:57 am

Northern Guy wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:10 pm
The most bizarre thing about 'Free as a Bird' is that none of the surviving Beatles was aware that the song had already been commercially issued -- in 1988 -- on the Imagine: John Lennon soundtrack. They learned this after they themselves recorded and released it (I personally prefer that rough demo in the movie.) And yes, The 'Threetles' version was garbage. As was 'Real Love', though it was probably a better composition. (There was a third track they were supposed to do, but fortunately George Harrison had the good sense to call time on it.)
No, Real Love was on imagine. Free As A Bird was never released. It didn't even have a bridge or middle 8. That's why you hear McCartney / Harrison singing the "whatever happened to..." part. I do like FAAB but I think they could've made Lennon's vocal sound better, or use a track that had a better vocal take on it, like an actual studio outtake rather than a home recorded demo.
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Northern Guy
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by Northern Guy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:28 pm

eviltimeban wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:57 am
No, Real Love was on imagine. Free As A Bird was never released. It didn't even have a bridge or middle 8. That's why you hear McCartney / Harrison singing the "whatever happened to..." part. I do like FAAB but I think they could've made Lennon's vocal sound better, or use a track that had a better vocal take on it, like an actual studio outtake rather than a home recorded demo.
That's right, I got them mixed-up... which is itself probably a sign of how forgettable they were...

Regan 2.0
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by Regan 2.0 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:14 pm

Northern Guy wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:10 pm
Scott 4 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:53 pm
Same goes for 'Free As A Bird'. Getting Jeff Lynne to buff up a dodgy quality Lennon demo and pass it off as a Beatles single?!
The most bizarre thing about 'Free as a Bird' is that none of the surviving Beatles was aware that the song had already been commercially issued -- in 1988 -- on the Imagine: John Lennon soundtrack. They learned this after they themselves recorded and released it (I personally prefer that rough demo in the movie.) And yes, The 'Threetles' version was garbage. As was 'Real Love', though it was probably a better composition. (There was a third track they were supposed to do, but fortunately George Harrison had the good sense to call time on it.)

Speaking of which, just like some of The Roses, George and Ringo needed money in the early 1990s. It seems strange to say, but apparently true. Just before Anthology, Ringo was in a Pizza Hut commercial with The Monkees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGcRYE9NbD0

(Maybe I shouldn't give Ian Brown ideas...)
The third track was called "Now and then" and was the strongest of the three. Having said that I think it was the worst quality recording, The original demo has a beautiful melody and chord changes.

thewiseman
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by thewiseman » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:00 am

They're all equally bad, but the 'first take' of FaaB on Youtube is 'OK' mainly because it lacks the terrible tub-thumping drums and Lynne's gloopy production.

Had George Martin's ears totally gone in 1995? Bizarre they didn't use him if not.

The only good thing that came out of it was that it killed off the idea of tarting up old demos. No one else has tried it since, have they?
Last edited by thewiseman on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

eviltimeban
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by eviltimeban » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:41 am

thewiseman wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:00 am
They're all equally bad, but the 'first take' of FoB on Youtube is 'OK' mainly because it lacks the terrible tub-thumping drums and Lynne's gloopy production.

Had George Martin's ears totally gone in 1995? Bizarre they didn't use him if not.

The only good thing that came out of it was that it killed off the idea of tarting up old demos. No one else has tried it since, have they?
George Martin's ears were fine. He was able to produce the Anthology 1 - 3, so saying he wasn't able to produce a new song is silly. No, Jeff Lynne was brought into produce as he was Harrison's mate and it was to keep Harrison happy. The drums are a bit mad sounding alright, but that was Lynne's sound.

Real Love is a bit better, but again, there was a better version of it floating around. Now And Then would've been more of the same, but by then George had had enough.

They did the trick again with "Grow Old With Me" on John Lennon's anthology, just a George Martin score over the demo, no drums or bass (which actually would've been nice with some McCartney on there).
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Regan 2.0
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Re: Ruined, Tarnished, Status Quo or Enhanced?

Post by Regan 2.0 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:18 am

eviltimeban wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:41 am
thewiseman wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:00 am
They're all equally bad, but the 'first take' of FoB on Youtube is 'OK' mainly because it lacks the terrible tub-thumping drums and Lynne's gloopy production.

Had George Martin's ears totally gone in 1995? Bizarre they didn't use him if not.

The only good thing that came out of it was that it killed off the idea of tarting up old demos. No one else has tried it since, have they?
'
George Martin's ears were fine. He was able to produce the Anthology 1 - 3, so saying he wasn't able to produce a new song is silly. No, Jeff Lynne was brought into produce as he was Harrison's mate and it was to keep Harrison happy. The drums are a bit mad sounding alright, but that was Lynne's sound.

Real Love is a bit better, but again, there was a better version of it floating around. Now And Then would've been more of the same, but by then George had had enough.

They did the trick again with "Grow Old With Me" on John Lennon's anthology, just a George Martin score over the demo, no drums or bass (which actually would've been nice with some McCartney on there).
I think the acoustic version of Real Love on the Imagine soundtrack sounds perfectly fine as it is and the sound quality is so much better than the demo that was embellished by the fab three.

Re: George Martin, didn't he himself admit that he wanted to do Free as a bird etc but doubted his ability due to the scale of the task?

(Just waiting for someone to remind us all the this isn't a Beatles forum :mrgreen: )

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